I now have starter module kits available for $24.95 plus $4.95 shipping.
It is plug N play.
Rich
From: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BRUSHFORK@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 7:53 AM
To: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
Hi Rich I might need one how do they wire in?
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Pierce" <radicalracing@sbcglobal.net <mailto:radicalracing%40sbcglobal.net> >
Sender: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 22:04:53
To: <Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> >
Reply-To: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
I bought 10 relays like the one I put on my Passport.
I suppose I can throw them out on eBay for $19.95/free shipping and do OK. I could do PayPal and just drop it in the mail.
Sorry for dropping the ball on these, but I am just slammed...
Rich
St. Louis, MO
From: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of BRUSHFORK@aol.com <mailto:BRUSHFORK%40aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:20 AM
To: Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
Would like to know about the relay what type to buy and how to install
thanking you in advance jg
In a message dated 4/17/2012 11:11:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cavery1@gmail.com <mailto:cavery1%40gmail.com> <mailto:cavery1%40gmail.com> writes:
Hi Rich. Do you know where I can get the relay you mention below?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 21, 2012, at 9:11 AM, "Richard Pierce"
<_radicalracing@sbcglobal.net <mailto:_radicalracing%40sbcglobal.net> <mailto:_radicalracing%40sbcglobal.net> _ (mailto:radicalracing@sbcglobal.net <mailto:radicalracing%40sbcglobal.net> <mailto:radicalracing%40sbcglobal.net> ) > wrote:
> Jay,
>
> Bottom line on these 6 volt bikes is the neutral light switch and
circuit was originally designed to carry only the current required to light a
very low wattage neutral light bulb. When electric starters were added, there
just wasn't enough current capacity in the circuit to work reliably after
years of service. By adding a small relay near the starter solenoid, you
effectively replace a large current demand (solenoid coil) with a very small
current demand (relay coil) in the marginal circuit, thereby allowing the
starter solenoid to "click in" with enough authority to close the high
amperage circuit to the starter motor.
>
> BTW, 6 volt coils require twice the current (amps) as the same coil
designed for 12 volts. This is one of the reasons most modern vehicles are
designed around 12 volt systems.
>
> I hope this helps explain the problem and the solution.
>
> Rich
>
> RadicalWerx
>
> From: _Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
[mailto:_Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> ) ] On
Behalf Of The Wildman
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:27 PM
> To: _Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
> Subject: Re: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
>
> Ron in NJ, I'm not Steve but Jay in N. TX.
>
> Anyway, I appreciate the input and will again this weekend attempt to
find the problem. I keep telling myself it HAS to be something simple. I can
take all of the components off and test them separately and they all work.
But put them all back on the bike and nothing. I also noted that my voltage
dropped down to .37v. YES, less than a volt at the starter. Again, I
suspect a bad ground or a pinched/bare wire somewhere. I really want to get this
thing going so I can enjoy the nice weather we've been having but I don't
want to rush anything and start blowing the headlight either. I'm hoping I
can get Tim over here and help me with it. Tim? Anyway, ya'll have a great
weekend and I'll keep checking back.
>
> Jay in N. TX
>
> ________________________________
> From: rdwnj <_rdwnj@yahoo.com <mailto:_rdwnj%40yahoo.com> <mailto:_rdwnj%40yahoo.com> _ (mailto:rdwnj@yahoo.com <mailto:rdwnj%40yahoo.com> <mailto:rdwnj%40yahoo.com> )
<mailto:rdwnj%40yahoo.com> >
> To: _Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
<mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:53 PM
> Subject: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
>
> Hello Wildman (Steve Brill?)
>
> You must study the wiring diagram for your C70 in order to have a
rational plan of attack to solve the problem.If you have an '80-'81 Passport then
the diagrams at
>
_http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda-C70/files/C70%20Wiring%20Diagrams/_
(http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda-C70/files/C70%20Wiring%20Diagrams/)
> should suffice. Looking at the [1980_81C70.jpg] file, notice that the
relay coil has 6 volts applied between its black (+6v) and its Y/R wire (frame
ground). Now it only gets 'grounded' when the starter switch is pressed
(closes) and the neutral switch closes as they are wired in series to ground.
As was stated if you take matters into your own hands as it were, and
directly ground that Y/R wire from the relay coil, being in neutral for safety,
ignition on, the starter relay should energize. If you hear the click that
usually means it is working, but the contacts for the heavy current to the
starter motor are dirty, pitted or whatever and need to be cleaned.
>
> If this is successful, then why doesn't the starter button - neutral
switch do the same? One could take the LG/R wire from the starter switch and
ground it manually, and try the starter switch. If it works then logic points
to the neutral switch (does the neutral light work?). If not, then the
starter switch needs attention.
>
> The idea here is to be methodical, and using logic, to eliminate good
items or find bad items going down (or up) the circuit, from frame ground to
the +6 volts on the battery. Don't stop until you have gone all the way.
You may have more than one thing wrong in the series of items that make up
the circuit.
>
> Many have found one bad item, fixed that and the circuit still didn't
work. Now they give up, or are confused, and lose their way because they just
couldn't imagine two or more (!) things being wrong. They start changing
other things hoping for a miracle, but now are injecting more changes and
problems... pretty soon the poor motorcycle is pushed to the back of the
barn, where it sleeps for 20 to 40 years, waiting for someone, like prince
charming to wake it up from its slumber with a little logic (LOL)
>
> You can replace the medium current requirement of the starter relay coil
provided by the starter switch - neutral switch, by a medium current relay
that uses a low power coil, and power that low power coil with the starter
switch-neutral switch circuit, that is just what the discussion is about.
There is even a diagram of it, see
> [1980_81C70.pdf] is the same section given above.
>
> All that is needed is to measure the resistance of the original relay
coil, using Ohms Law, divide that into 6 (volts), that give the current that
the coil, starter switch and neutral switch must pass, all together, in
series, in order to make the coil work. This current is what the contacts of
the extra relay need to be able to switch reliably.
>
> If there is a bad contact/connection/open circuit... anywhere, that
doesn't let the full current get to the coil, it may not/won't work. adding a
relay to make it work with less current will work until there isn't enough
current for the smaller relay to function. It may be better to fix the real
problem first, than to postpone it by basically 'amplifying' the weak
current in the starter switch - neutral switch series circuit with the medium
current relay.
>
> If someone can measure the standard relay's coil resistance we can find
a relay to work with it. The diagram suggests an Omron G5LE-14 DC 6, at
Newark Electronics supply, but also, for consumers there is
> _http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=Omron+G5LE-14_
(http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=Omron+G5LE-14)
> for $1.11 + S&H I would presume.
>
> Hope this helps all those 'weak' C70 starter switch circuits out there :)
>
> Ron in NJ
>
> --- In _Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
<mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> , The Wildman <j.thewildman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Welcome to my nightmare!!!! I'm just about to the point of taking the
harness out and un-taping it to find the weak spot. I bought my bike used
and there were burnt wires with the starter relay. I also suspect a weak
ground. And I feel this is the reason for the burnt wires. You've only
chased yours for a couple of days, I've been chasing mine for a couple of weeks
yet. But it has become a matter of principle. I'm bound and determined to
figure this out by myself and/or with help from the group. I DO NOT want to
take this thing to a shop to find what I think is a simple solution.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: RivetRestorations.com <srivet@...>
> > To: _Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
<mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:12 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
> >
> >
> > Â
> > i have been chasing this for a couple of days now. I'm new to the C70.
> > i chased the yellow/red Stripe wire also from the Relay to the Starter
> > button then the Green/ red stripe wire down to the Neutral Switch on
the
> > left side of the motor.
> >
> > with a new Battery Fully charged and Multiple Relays, i found that the
> > contact gets weaker and weaker the further away from the relay i test
> >
> > i disconnected the yellow/red striped wire, turned the key on, i found
> > that there is positive current in that wire all way up to the Switch
and
> > down to the Neutral Switch. and this with every relay i have tested.
and
> > I've tested known good working relays from other bikes and there all
> > doing this.
> >
> > so
> >
> > i grounded the yellow/red stripe to the Frame, the relay engages and
> > fires the Starter.
> >
> > this also happens when i touch the green/red stripe wire from the
> > Connection by the Stator
> >
> > but the Starter Button still doesn't work correctly
> >
> > i can't believe that all 16 relays i have tested on this bike are all
> > bed when they work on the bikes that they can off.
> >
> > could be a weak Ground from the Neutral Switch?
> >
> > SAR
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: [Honda-C70] Re: Rich > 6 volt relay
> > From: "Richard Pierce" <radicalracing@...>
> > Date: Wed, January 18, 2012 5:00 pm
> > To: <_Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:_Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> _ (mailto:Honda-C70@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> )
<mailto:Honda-C70%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Yes,
> >
> > Turn on the key, put the bike in neutral (green light on speedometer
lit
> > up), unplug green and yellow wire at starter solenoid and connect the
> > end from the solenoid to a good frame or engine ground. If engine
> > cranks, you need this relay.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> _____
>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4755 - Release Date: 01/20/12
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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1970-73 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw
1970-73 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/6ebwtw (scroll to sec.7.1 page 101.jpg)
1980-83 C70 Honda Service Manual: http://tinyurl.com/hu42c
1980-81 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec.18-1 page 170.jpg)
1982-83 C70 Troubleshooting Guide:
http://tinyurl.com/hu42c (scroll to sec. 20-28 page 205.jpg)
1980-81 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/z4zn6
1982-83 C70 Maintenance Schedule: http://tinyurl.com/hw35c
More resources for C70 Passports and Cubs:
http://www.shlaes.com/Vehicles/Scooter.htm
http://www.velodrome.com/HondaC70/HondaC70.html
